You are just being silly about the Catholic Church - they hid and sheltered thousands of Jews - indeed many Catholics and Christians have been honoured by Israel by being declared "Righteous Gentiles". What about St. Maximilian Kolbe and Pope John Paul 11 - he was the victim of both Nazis and Communists, and he with his support for Polish Solidarity and together with Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan freed not only the West but the Soviet Empire from the tyranny of communism.
Clearly we are reading different history books, and it is futile to continue this discussion. I think you are suffering from a guilt complex that is why you want to project evil on the Catholic Church because if what it claims is true, you would have to get down off your high judgmental horse. Read the attachments. I did not expect to convince you with the quotes from pro-life sources, I just thought it was comic when I was not even looking for them, so many references to Margaret Sanger turned up in the past week.
And do take your complaint about the Catholic Church being guilty of genocide to the United Nations - they take genocide very seriously and will refer the matter to the International Criminal Court. There's a challenge for you - instead of trying to bully me with your nonsense, try to take it to the UN/ICC or even get it published in any reputable paper. I get my writings published and I complain to the UN Secretariat as I did at the recent UN Conference in Melbourne when I feel there is any injustice or even a wrong statistic.
So, I challenge you, make your attacks on the Catholic Church public and not just let them fester in the dark corners of your mind.
Hello again, Babette,
The article on Margaret Sanger is still unconvincing. There's nothing there about racism. The creation of a new race, without a criminal class, is simply the idea of the next generation not being overcrowded to the point where the people must receive very little in their development. Also, none of these quotes are cited. That is, I have to take the "good faith" of the writer about where they came from. For someone writing about an "intellectual moron," this writer doesn't seem to understand the basic method of references used over the past two centuries of basic, English writing. I'm sure Mike S. Adams is too intellectual for that.
Of course you weren't even looking for them. Pro-Life sources like to spend their time demonizing Margaret Sanger. They like to talk about how Sanger gave a lecture to a group of the KKK, and how this is proof she was a racist who wanted to abolish the black race. Then why was she telling the KKK how to limit their breeding? After all, why not apply the same logic universally about the KKK? They did an official, government march at the White House annually, being praised and accepted by the US president, for decades. Sanger only spoke about birth control to one event, but US presidents have honored and wholeheartedly accepted the KKK into their arms. If this is enough proof that Sanger is a racist, then it is also proof that the United States government is trying to kill every single non-white person in existence.
Israel possesses "administrative detainment camps." Translation: concentration camps. They are also the world's greatest dealer in weapons of mass destruction, and when one of their scientists came forward with evidence nuclear weapons smuggling by Israel, he was tortured and imprisoned. The story of Mordechai Vanunu is extremely clear: Israel is producing, and most likely distributing, nuclear arms, and even with proof beyond doubt, the United Nations has done no investigation, has levied no sanctions, nor have they even mentioned anything about the fate of Vanunu.
Israel is a terrorist state, and I have no devotion to the people they consider "heroes." Funny, Vanunu was hiding in Rome. Where was the Catholic Church's protection for this Jew, persecuted by a police-state that was about to throw him in a prison for publishing the truth about tyranny?
Ronald Reagan did not "free the West" or abolish the Soviet Empire. I mean, he wasn't even in Russia when the government fell, nor were any of his agents. It was their own people that brought the Russian government crashing to the ground. And Pope John Paul II was a conspirator in child-rape, like all the other popes. Sure, he was a victim of the Nazis and the Communists, but the Nazis were propped up with a concordat by the Vatican, just like the Communists. Priests told their own people to accept Bolshevism and Fascism. These are not doubted, and you can simply google "fascist concordat" to get the original document. So, if Pope John Paul II was persecuted for being a Pole, you have to blame the Catholic Church for setting up his persecutors. For treating their own people like this, I can only imagine what "love thy enemy" means.
You're aware that the UN was not in existence during the genocides of the Jews, the Poles, the Liberals, the Anarchists, and the Socialists in Germany, Spain, Italy, Yugoslavia, and France, right? Does the UN have jurisdiction over 1920's Italy, when the UN was formed in 1945? Why don't I just bring a complaint against them for the slaughter of the Chinese by Genghis Kahn, and the genocide of the Native Americans by the US government? Neither of these things are doubted by historians, but you'd be ridiculous to say that they're simply false because the UN has not heard them or came to some conclusion regarding them. Not one single of these things is doubted by history books.
The story of the concentration camps and mass executions in Spain are well-documented, though they are not as well known as those in Germany. In Fascist Spain, they were allowed control over the schools. What does that mean? Well, here's one lesson: "What sin is committed by him who votes for a Liberal candidate? -- Generally a mortal sin." (page 14) This was the universal lesson in every single Spanish school, because they were controlled by the Catholic Church. Is it surprising, then, that a Liberal-Socialist coalition was overthrown by a Fascist, military uprising of the most devout, patriotic Catholics of Spain? The Catholic Church even formed "Catholic Unions," that is, organizations "to break strikes." (16) The Catholic Church taught against the opposition to Fascism, and then they acted against them, trying to break strikes against Nationalist and Militarist powers. Source: "The Background of the Agrarian and Clerical Problems," by Gerald Brennan, from "The Spanish Labyrinth," published 1950.
"Many of the clergy preached bolshevik propaganda from the pulpit, I learned, also, in the Polish Delegation in Moscow, that in the winter of 1921-22, with the tacit agreement of the bolshevik imperialists, many Russian priests disguised in peasant clothing found their way to the Grodno district of Poland as agitators for the return of our borderlands into the bosom of the Russian state." (page 122) Priests continued to run businesses in a famine-stricken, Soviet Russia, one typical example: "...he carried on trade in eggs, as the peasants brought him far more than he needed for himself and his family." The special legal treatment given to these priests in controlling Poland was important, because the Church ordered them to encourage Bolshevik Revolution in Poland. Source: "Seven Years in Russia and Siberia, 1914-1921," by Roman Dyboski, published 1971.
And Italy's story is too well known. The Lateran Agreements were between Benito Mussolini and the Vatican. Take a look at Articles 35-40. In exchange for supporting Fascism, the Mussolini gave the Catholic Church a monopoly on education -- which they exploited, forcing their Catholic religion onto Jews, Muslims, and Atheists. So-much for "protection," they were enslaved to Catholicism. Articles 3, 8, 9, and 30 makes the Catholic Church and its members completely immune to the brutality of the police state. Apparently, God's men save their own skin first, when butchers are ready to slaughter the population. Also, the Italian tax-payers have to cover 1.7 billion Lire (in 1920 money) to pay off the Church, as well as granting them the land that makes up Vatican City today. This is the origin of the Vatican City, an agreement between the Pope and Mussolini. Source: The Lateran Agreements, and "The Italian Liberals and the Lateran Treaties," by Friends of Italian Freedom, London, 1929.
The Catholic Church supported the Fascist position, including the invasion of Ethiopia and the mass slaughter of their people, or in the words of one writer, "There are about 750,000 Arabs and Berbers, and these would be more numerous if Graziani [Italian commander] had not massacred so many during his governorship..." ("Colonization: The Exploitation of Libya," by Max Salvadori, Il Mondo, published 1938.) Mussolini's approach to Ethiopia, where he refused to arbitrate and declared an invasion, just to gain more land, was described by Pope Pius XI as "humane, kindly intent, with a sincere intention of averting war." And, elsewhere, he defended the war saying, "...the war would be a just war because in self-defense, to secure the frontiers against incessant menace, a war necessary for the expansion of a daily increasing population." ("The Vatican and the Ethiopian War," by Gaetano Salvemini, published in Christendom, 1937.) Yes, Italy needs to conquer East Africa to protected from its "incessant menace."
You know about the Reichskonkordat, right? Hitler made negotiations with the Catholic Church. Just like in Italy, the Catholic Church receives the right to force Catholicism onto everyone in the nation, as it is made a mandatory taught religion in the schools of Nazi Germany. Articles 1, 2, 4, and 31 make the church immune to the police state, again. While article 13 allowed the church to directly tax the German people under Nazi domination! Likewise, they also dipped into the state funds of the Nazi Party directly. (Article 18)
Everywhere there has been concentration camps, from Soviet Russia to Nazi Germany to Nationalist Spain, there has always been the Catholic Priest, telling everyone to believe in the government, and to accept their chains like a blessing. This is a fact of life, and I'm not going to bring basic facts to the UN. Basic facts are debatable in the public sphere. If you disagree with the facts, then go to the Wikipedia pages for them, and try to change them. Tell them "Showing documentary evidence that Catholicism has participated in the rounding up of Jews is just silly!" And then say that they need to bring their complaints to the UN to have them justified. Go ahead, edit the entries for the Reichskonkordat, the Lateran Agreements, the Russian Civil War, and the Spanish Civil War.
The UN didn't do anything about the massacre of indigenous Catholics at Oaxaca in 2006; and, of course, the Catholic Church didn't say anything about it. Apparently, it's more important to spend all of your energy and resources relocating child rapists so that they won't be discovered by authorities. "Police are shooting our own people in the street? Please, we're busy sending rapist priests to the Congo so that they won't be detected in their behavior." Doubt it? Argue it with the people from Wikipedia: Wikipedia.org: Catholic Sex Abuse Cases
I don't know where you get your interpretations of historical events from, but as I challenged you before, publish in some reputable daily or magazine, and take your complaints about the Catholic Church to the UN and the International Criminal Court and charge the Church with war crimes.
There - I have laid down the gauntlet - I am not a professional historian, but other experts will deal with your case against the Church if it is a valid one.
P.S. Yes, it was the Polish workers in Solidarnosc that made the first breach in the walls of the Soviet Empire, but it was Pope John Paul 11 that inspired them.
Hello again, Babette,
The story of Catholic support of Fascism is widespread and well known. From the New Statesman:
That took me two seconds to find going to google news and typing in "catholic church" and fascism. See, if it's that easy to find out online, more than A BILLION PEOPLE know. Don't you get it? It's accepted fact, not some contorted myth. Just see where your google searches take you. And the reason why nobody does anything about it today, especially the UN, is because they're a bunch of bourgeoisie capitalists themselves, just like the Pope. They didn't do anything about the Mexican government who slaughtered twenty people at Oaxaca in 2006 in a largely Catholic region. Again, without any protest from Catholic periodicals or the Vatican. Don't believe it? Read "Teaching Rebellion," by the Casa Collective, or just look up the Wikipedia article on it. So why should they have problems shaking hands with someone who built up the power of Fascism in Italy, Germany, and Spain, as well as Bolshevism in Russia?
(a) It's common knowledge, and (b) of course nobody does anything about it, because those in charge are just a bunch of murderers anyway. More than 34,000 starve to death every single day, according to the National Association for the Prevention of Starvation: NAPSOC.org . The majority of it is the result of privatization of land, which, naturally, came with the domination of the European conquests. Again, basic history here. And, as with the mass genocide of Native Americans, Australians, South Americans, and Asians, it was all supported and described as holy by the Vatican. Why do thousands starve to death everyday? It may have something to do with private property. Either that, or people would rather starve to death than work. No other possibility, really.
P.S. Allegedly the pope inspires a billion people every year, but that doesn't do a thing to help them get out of oppression. It just takes more from them by having to support a clergy class. What changed things for the Poles was the General Strike -- adopting the tactics of radical, revolutionary Anarchism. That's what did it, and it was more powerful than all the "inspiration" you can get from a supporter of Fascist dictatorship.
Since you won't take your complaints against the Catholic Church to the UN, take it to the International Criminal Court or the European Court of Justice (I think that is the name of the EU equivalent). The European courts have no love for the Vatican which they know opposes them on abortion and homosexual marriage.
Or get your stuff published in The Age, which also has no love for Catholics.
You have absolutely no idea of the great educational and charitable work done by the Catholic Church in poor countries. My great-uncle a doctor, worked in a Catholic hospital with lepers in India. I remember him, he rode in a motor-cycle with a side car in which he sometimes let me ride as a treat. Damian of Molokai (recently canonized) did the same. I owe my education to dedicated nuns in India - and I am more literate than most Australians.
It is okay for you living in a privileged western democracy where all your rights and needs are protected by the democratic political system and free market ideology which has brought prosperity, but if you were in a poor country, you would be grateful for Caritas and World Vision, both Christian in inspiration.
I don't see the revolutionaries rushing to help in Pakistan or Haiti or elsewhere. So spare me your diatribes - tell me where you have helped the poor and disadvantaged out of your own pocket, not MY TAXES.